A "party módok" a mostani turbókorszak igazi velejárója, ami egy motor élettartamában kb. I’m pretty sure the top speeds are higher but how do they compare in terms of acceleration? F1 performance (@patent) 17th July 2019, 21:11. The sport’s technical directors intend to change the balance between the two in 2021. If this is beneficial, let the designers petition for them. socksolid (@socksolid) 17th July 2019, 23:51. "There is a diffuser going right under the car – a venturi channel type manner. "One is because the cars slide more and hence they destroy the tyres and secondly because obviously adding more turbulence and slow-moving air, the tyres and the rest of the car don’t cool down as they do otherwise. High-degradation tyres “completely the wrong thing” for F1 – Symonds, Gasly’s strong weekend down to approach, not set-up – Horner, How Honda achieved a win-win with its smaller and more powerful new F1 engine, Norris: McLaren have closed on leaders and can gain “free lap time” from power unit, Haas “not putting in any effort” to do more than fight Williams this year, AlphaTauri bringing “nice step forward” for car over next three races, Alfa Romeo “can have fun this year” with more competitive car – Giovinazzi, Correa returns to action in F3 test, 19 months on from horror crash at Spa. The cars are already on rails in the corners compared to the 80s so this wont change anything. 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See the Comment Policy and FAQ for more.If the person you're replying to is a registered user you can notify them of your reply using '@username'. Completed in 2020 in Montréal, Canada. Plus, whether road course or street circuit, F1 track surfaces areµ billiard smooth compared to some of the circuits IndyCar runs on, so if anything, F1 is better suited to ground effects cars. Modern ground effect based car simply does not suffer from the same issues anymore. And I think that is what has happened as the technical regs have been honed via their wind tunnel research and via consensus from the teams that Brawn just couldn’t speak to in 2018 as it was early days. The end of ground effect, the overblown turbo era, qualifying engines meant to last just one lap and controversy – F1 in the 1980s had it all. “What the following car receives is much cleaner flow,” Tombazis explained. MacLeod (@macleod) 17th July 2019, 16:19. groundeffect without skirts is much safer and that is what they are designing here. One of the 2021 regulations’ chief objectives was to allow closer racing. Will modern wings be effective in regaining control? Drs for sure increases that number very easily. Ground effects will put the drivers talent more on display separate the kids from the grownups. Any takers for Michael Schumacher's 1991 Benetton? Dont I think they’ve thought a lot about this. Combined with the fuel flow limit of 100kg and you would end up with cars running to the permitted limit the entire race – there would be little benefit not to, beyond reliability and tyres. Early wake up, means first on the beach . Plus having drs on qualifying makes the cars look faster so they can brag about faster lap times when the drs gives them second or more. Your email address will not be published. Team owner Lawrence Stroll said, "I have dreamed about this day for a very long time. Today, F1 regulations heavily limit the effect of ground effect aerodynamics, which are a highly efficient means of creating downforce with a very small drag penalty. In the 80s the cars ran skirts and relatively basic stiff suspensions. How will F1 revolutionise the racing in 2021? I was under the impression Indy car added fenders to keep the cars for launching if they touch wheels. @socksolid Just to reiterate, upon googling ‘Ross Brawn on drs’ what comes up is several articles from Feb 2018 providing the same quotes that he is hopeful to remove drs for 2021, and then several articles in Sept 2018 saying the same quotes that they will keep drs in their pocket. Before the trolls jump in and say none of it will work, why shake up the order just as it’s closing up (clue: because it’s not) blah blah I just want to say all of this sounds fantastic and I can’t wait for 2021! Few products left https://t.co/Cn4yYJfQYl. drmouse (@drmouse) 17th July 2019, 14:55. And this kind of technology comes back into Formula 1 in a certain way [in 2022] that hasn’t been in Formula 1 recently. Archived. There are tunnels under the sidepods from the front to the back.". change sounds great. Currently about 60% of the car downforce comes from ground effect. Same reason they’ve had to resort to terrible tires to try to create the show with cars that would otherwise be processional. Also bringing you live reporting, features, interviews, videos, pictures and classic content. So the F score tends to measure something closer to average performance, while the IoU score measures something closer to the worst case performance. As such any bumps, corners, tire pressures and fuel loads and such caused the ride height to move around a lot which caused the downforce levels to change rapidly all the time. The aero concept, pioneered in F1 by Lotus creator Colin Chapman and which was banned in 1983 on the grounds of safety, has been identified as a central element destined to improve overtaking in F1. This will improve things massively I think. Because lifting the car up on one side by riding the curb it will break the ground effect. A good insentive to stay within track limits! "The first part of the objective is to improve the wake [from] the front car so the rear car doesn’t suffer so much performance loss," added Tombazis. Promoted content from around the web | Become a RaceFans Supporter to hide this ad and others, Is there a scale for the colours @keithcollantine? Does anybody have any comparisons in acceleration between normally-aspirated engines and the current hybrids? Number of passes per race. We don’ need no steenking leemits!”. Looking at the colour in the current style front wing, that’s the impression I get. © 2021 Google LLC. pls. I have always loved racing, too. (@peartree) 17th July 2019, 18:12. “Typically we are [going] from about 50 percent loss of downforce for the following car at two car distances [behind] down to about five [to] 10 percent loss. The rest is superficial. Unfortunately I’m 90% confident they won’t remove DRS. Acceleration is a function of power (well, force, but near enough) and weight (mass). Worse off the front/rear balance of the downforce also changed rapidly. Stephen Crowsen (@drycrust) 17th July 2019, 19:29. Body kits and ground effects kits are based on modifications made to race cars that enable them to slice through the air with minimum resistance and hug the track for traction. For many years in F1 drivers have complained about the difficulty in following another car due to the dirty air that reduces downforce, as well as increasing tyre wear due to overheating and engine temperatures. The more passes the better. @dbradock You can’t look at floor work alone. I think they MUST remove drs or they will have failed to adequately get off the aero addiction at a time when there is much recent verbiage about the 2021 cars creating much less wake, having more ground effects, and losing much less performance while in dirty air. My 3 kids are getting acquainted with my good old friend Jet Lag.... Phillip van Osten When the decision was made to shove Formula 1's technical overhaul and return to true ground-effect cars back a year, the suggestion was that 2021 would end up … ", Gallery: The beautiful wives and girlfriends of F1 drivers, Keep up to date with all the F1 news via Facebook and Twitter. Does anybody have any comparisons in acceleration between normally-aspirated engines and the current hybrids? For 2021 all external components of an F1 car must be coated in rubber to help insulate marshals and team engineers from the electrical systems on board each car. 2 2 22. comments . By James Gilboy August 31, 2018 I hope it works. Could you imagine them getting it right and coming out as a top car? I also disagree entirely that there is an addiction to it and that removing it will be ‘painful.’ Why would it when they will be driving much better cars meant for closer racing? (It’s way more noticeable when you’re actually there). And a potentially big bonus for forcing a competitor wide ;). Facing a series of financing problems, Renault backed down from a full factory team to an engine supplier in 1986 before withdrawing entirely from F1 at the end of that season. The 2 concepts are very similar. The fuel flow limit had nothing to do with lift-and-coast. Unrestricted is probably the wrong word to be honest, more like ‘higher fuel flow limit’. It looks to be similar to the level of ground effect they have in Indycar. F1 looking at ground-effect aerodynamics package for 2021 While the racing has been better in recent weeks, there is plenty opportunity to bring more passing into the sport By Sam Hall Super formulas old car and the new car are far better than f1 and f2 cars, big visual difference, massive diffuser. The venturi tunnels are higher up off the floor so even running over the kerbs the seals is still not broken. The seal on the venturi tunnels that are used in the India model are different to those used in the 80’s, skirts. Or perhaps a high tech solution makes that obsolete. Jim Clark Museum project secures final funding. Tweaks to these existing floors has nothing to do with an entirely differently shaped floor underneath. “We are aware that when development takes place from teams – who don’t care about what the following car performance is, they just care about the front car – that that may negate some of these gains and that it’s our task to make rules that try to prevent that as much as possible.”. Pirelli crunched the numbers: Which race had the most overtakes in 2017? The cars very extremely sensitive to changes in ride height. 17/07/2019 at 16:2217/07/2019 at 13:37. Because formula e cars have absolutely massive diffusers and is reportedly much easier to overtake in. Copy link Share on WhatsApp Share on Facebook With the plans and regulations discussion underway for the 2021 Formula 1 season it has been confirmed that ‘ground effect’ will be returning to the news cars to improve closer racing. F1 prefers quantity over quality. I am surprised that there is no mention of any form of active suspension in this new package though, Ground effects work best when accompanied with a stable platform. This collection was made sustainably with pieces from @thepangaia. The way these important surfaces affect downforce is detailed below: Approximate distribution of aerodynamic downforce and drag for a modern F1 car Underbody. 10 years of DRS: Should F1 wean itself off push-button passes? Formula One (also known as Formula 1 or F1) is the highest class of international auto racing for single-seater formula racing cars sanctioned by the Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA). This old article on RaceFans seems to agree that ground effect is too dangerous: https://www.racefans.net/2007/06/07/banned-ground-effects/. Ground effect in 2021. @anon Yes, but given a year to adjust to the new aero kit, IndyCar’s drivers have mostly gotten on with it, and the number of full course yellows has dropped significantly this season. In addition, these engines produce that power across a wider rev range, so average power output will be even higher comparatively speaking. Also, think of those skids we have had this year where the driver lost control of the rear and ended up hitting a high kerb at right angles to it . Paul (@frankjaeger) 17th July 2019, 22:45. 834 talking about this. In today's F1 gossip, a return for ground effect, Hamilton snr on Verstappen and Vietnam GP tickets go on sale. It’s going to take the ground up restoration to do that. Still, they know better than I. I really do hope they shorten the wheelbase though. The front wing is an aero device, while ground effects refers to non-wing related downforce by creating a vacuum under the car by using the shape of the floor and diffuser. There seems to be considerable enthusiasm for ground effect amongst the commenters here, but one must consider why it was banned way back. Jose Lopes da Silva 17th July 2019, 23:47. I see no articles from 2019, and the one you cited above speaks of drs and the non-outwashing front wings on the current 2019 cars, not on the 2021 ones. 17-07-2019 18:06 | Updated: 17-07-2019 21:22. by Bevan Youl. You’re right that F1 moved away from ground effects for safety, because losing the “seal” for ground effect (e.g. elchinero (@elchinero) 17th July 2019, 12:33, “Leemits!? Very exciting. If that is it, it would also seem the new front wings would play a lot less of a role. 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Unfortunately, with the current V6 t h, it’s unlikely. People seem to have very wrong idea about what the ground effect is. Your email address will not be published. This has been well past due for quite some time. The only thing that can change that is to allow for engine power that isnt dwarfed by the aero but obviously that will never happen. Billy Monger headlines the Valencia FIA Formula 3 post-season test entry, as Formula 1 juniors from Ferrari, Renault and Red Bull will all take part over the next three days Where does Hamilton need to finish to clinch the title in Austin? There is a much better understanding of aerodynamics now than there was in the late 70’s early 80’s. Remove it, and the teams could produce a ridiculous amount of power by using ridiculous boost levels (as long as they spent a ridiculous amount of money making the engine able to take it). Post was not sent - check your email addresses! We’ve been waiting for this since, probably, 1996. They will have learned from the 80’s. ComeAllWithin.co.uk - All Change for Euro Challenge . The cars also used mechanical devices to seal the tunnels under the car. “We want to make it more possible for cars to race and follow each other and to have more exciting battles," explained the former Ferrari engineer. Those are easy and cheap passes that are never memorable for they do not take an admirable feat to achieve. drmouse (@drmouse) 18th July 2019, 17:01. As I’ve said before, the fuel flow limit is exactly the same in principal as a rev limit for a natasp. We saw in the ’80’s what ground effects meant then let alone what the engineers can now do. Senna's Monaco Toleman to go under the hammer! Or use it as a word to describe an era of f1 aerodynamics in which case it is very imprecises as it has nothing to do with the physical phenomena but just a time period of the sport. I haven’t seen figures, but the amount of extra power available is much more than the weight increase, so I would be very surprised if acceleration wasn’t significantly higher too. Got a potential story, tip or enquiry? The World Drivers' Championship, which became the FIA Formula One World Championship in 1981, has been one of the premier forms of racing around the world since its inaugural season in 1950. That simply doesn’t exist with drs passes. The cars are heavier than they were, but more powerful. Conceding F1 made a mistake prioritising speed over passing, 2021's new-look cars will be "approximately 3 - 3.5 seconds slower per lap" but will have "raceability". Styrian GP: Saturday's action in pictures, Binotto: Performance 'not good enough for a team named Ferrari'. BS Aeronautical Engineering, 1995. The high rake philosophy means the front wing is that little bit closer to the ground in those types of corners, which can reduce this understeer thanks to ground effect. In 2021 I will tune in again to see the vast improvement. Blue is lower pressure, green means higher pressure than blue and then it goes to yellow, orange and red. The 78 duly ushered in the era of ground effect in F1 which lasted until the end of 1982 (and is coming back in 2021, by the way) and birthed other works of art like the updated Lotus 79, the Gordon Murray-designed Brabham BT46 ‘Fan Car’ and another revolutionary Lotus, the 88 ‘Twin Chassis’ car. The more ideas they take from Indycar, the happier I get. Either as a physical phenomena in which case it is always there. F1 News. It still looks this way, so is this really the end of DRS? I suspect all teams will dump the complex wings as fast as they can to rely more on the tunnels. What’s this percentage for the 2021 car? But this topic of numbers of passes shouldn’t be confused with the need for drs to create more with these current cars vs. what is planned for the next chapter and what Brawn has said, which is that it is NOT about numbers of passes for the new era but the number of close battles. This is fantastic news. © 2021 Collantine Media Ltd | About RaceFans. It’s less of a problem now but I don’t know why they ever made the fuel flow regulations when it created such lame racing. I suspect it could make the car faster too, but of course that’s sort of irrelevant with these cars. Otherwise it doesn’t give much information, actually if they represent the same pressures it looks like is almost the same, but I highly doubt it, I think the darker the blue, the more downforce, perhaps? Has there been any mention of using ground effect in 2021 to remove the turbulent air and increase the overtaking? Ferrari drivers clash into retirement in Styrian GP! Solid about the event: - We plan to run the competition in RFactor 2, where we will compete with free modes on the basic field. I have always been a car guy, since I was a child. But for sure he has said he has never liked drs. I wonder how this will impact the lines the drivers take? accidental mick (@accidental-mick) 17th July 2019, 12:38. "So we have a massive reduction of the downforce [loss] for the following car. Curious if they will eventually allow double chassis to return to further improve low speed handling. I think Ground effects provide more downforce at the expense of less drag. Millimeter too high or low and you lose downforce and speed. one innovation that the governing body were surely right to get rid of. They will have to run the cars crazy stiff if they don’t go in that direction. MEGATRON M12 (@megatron) 18th July 2019, 2:18. However the FIA expects the teams’ pursuit of performance will erode some of these gains. I am not an expert, but I would guess that riding the curbs is not going to be a thing anymore. Modern cars can use airflow. He circles a few key elements that might carry McLaren to its ultimate F1 goals. Its new concept car analysed, Read more about Dieter Rencken, find all their articles and get in touch with them, Read more about Keith Collantine, find all their articles and get in touch with them, Find out more about RaceFans and contact us here, Become a RaceFans Supporter to hide this ad and others, https://www.racefans.net/2007/06/07/banned-ground-effects/, https://www.racefans.net/2019/04/05/drs-change-was-easy-way-to-create-more-overtaking/, https://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-news/drs-could-remain-on-f1-cars-in-2021/. Planes gain lift when they fly closer to the ground. "They are simpler than the current cars because a lot of the small components have been removed: especially in front of the sidepods, the front wings are simpler. Sattalyte (@sattalyte) 17th July 2019, 19:47, Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark) 17th July 2019, 10:40. That it didn't pan out that way, and Lewis Hamilton scored a … All are equivalent in terms of limiting the air & fuel going into the engine, and therefore roughly equalising the playing field in terms of engine performance. racerdude7730 (@racerdude7730) 17th July 2019, 19:31, They just need to run active suspension and that danger will go away for the most part, socksolid (@socksolid) 17th July 2019, 23:45. The difference in amount of pressure between the colours is not too relevant at the moment, or for the article. I worked on an Anson Sa5 formula car with large tunnels. We all want, or should want, passes to be hard earned, and drivers able to defend, again, neither being the case with drs involved. Number of chances is what can create as much if not more excitement than sheer number of passes let alone number of weak and meatless, unmemorable drs passes. I think the first article you cite does a weak job of trying to claim drs could stay for the next gen, but note that this article is from 2018, and see Brawn’s wording and my interpretation is that he is saying for the 3 years 2018, 19, and 20, they won’t be developing the cars away from drs. GILLES P DE BROUWER 20th July 2019, 23:01. Ralf Schumacher showing his 10mm thick wooden plank ( 2006) By FIA rules, underside of the vehicle, the undertray, must be flat between the axles.